wraithfodder (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
wraithfodder) wrote2008-06-16 06:01 pm
wraithfodder) wrote2008-06-16 06:01 pm
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Jason Momoa featured in TV Guide (includes PHOTO)
Jason Momoa of Stargate Atlantis is featured on page 10 of the U.S. June 23rd TV GUIDE on 'top 10 breaking news.' However, most of us know that Jason .... oh, hmm, just in case, under the cut!
Yes, he cut his dreads but his head and neck were hurting from the weight of the dreads. He added that all that hair kept him from wearing a bike helmet and kept ruining his balance on a surfboard. Eek! but SciFi execs didn't want him to cut it so now he's got a wig.
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Alien does not mean bad, and never has as far as I know.
Humans have been killing, abusing and discriminating against other human beings and denying their humanity for being "other" (alien, foreign, exotic) for all of human history. Pulling out the dictionary definition of these words says NOTHING about their connotations or the historical baggage associated with them.
I kinda feel like I'm done here. I just don't know what else to say and I don't think you're listening to me at all. Maybe it's because I'm expressing myself badly. I really do hope that when you calm down and back off and get a little distance from this, you'll start doing some reading and begin to understand why people are getting upset at the things you're saying.
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If you want to continue this, just PM me or whatever.
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NO.
Many people in this discussion have pointed out that dreadlocks are usually worn by, and strongly associated with, people of color.
They are STRONGLY associated with a culture, race and color.
Regardless of what you meant, regardless of what traits you originally meant to compare between the two, when you make or condone comments such as "Dreadlocks look exotic" or "Dreadlocks make Ronon Dex look non-human" these comments reflect on people in real life who wear dreadlocks. AND YOU ARE STILL DOING IT, no matter how many times it's pointed out to you.
by tv/movie hair design standards, his *character* would not look as alien
TV/movie design standards which are essentially set by privileged people and reflect the standards of the dominant, white culture, and in turn influence how people with those hairstyles or physical qualities are treated in real life.
It wasn't any less offensive when the Predator film designers did it. Excusing an offensive action because someone else got away with an offensive action somewhere else doesn't make it any less offensive.
ok still apparently not done. on the topic of keith hamilton cobb...
Re: ok still apparently not done. on the topic of keith hamilton cobb...
Re: ok still apparently not done. on the topic of keith hamilton cobb...
NOAH! God, I loved him. Hee! I totally forgot that he was on Andromeda. -/hijack-
Re: ok still apparently not done. on the topic of keith hamilton cobb...
Re: ok still apparently not done. on the topic of keith hamilton cobb...
Wiki says that she's part Cherokee, evidently - which I had no idea about. But yeah, totally rare - the only other one I can think of off the top of my head is Cristina/Burke on Grey's Anatomy.
Re: ok still apparently not done. on the topic of keith hamilton cobb...
Re: ok still apparently not done. on the topic of keith hamilton cobb...
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Actually, in this case, I think Sci Fi just realised the monetary branding potential of Ronon's look (I have a sneaking suspicion Joe Flanigan wouldn't be allowed to change his look either; you have to have permission to get a hair cut these days...)
For me, the fact they didn't want him to have them in the first place speaks more about their prejudices and opinions.
But I don't disagree with you; the majority of shows are hugely discriminatory - subconsciously or no - because of the ingrained prejudices of the middle-aged, middle-class white men pullnig the strings.
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Actually, Flanigan was offered the chance to get to fly in an Air Force jet of some sort (I don't remember now) if he'd cut his hair to regulation length. He was all for it, but had the idea nixed by TPTB. So, yeah, it's not just Momoa.
And given that it was Momoa who wanted the character to have dreads in the first place, you can't exactly claim TPTB decided dreads were equivalent to "alien" and "dangerous", at least to start with, though it may be the case now.
Which says nothing about members of fandom regarding a perfectly normal human hairstyle as alien, non-human, or dangerous.
As an aside, I always figured Teyla's wig was an attempt to make her more exotic, set her apart as not being from standard Earth genetic lines because while she had dark skin, it was not accompanied by "typical" dark and possibly kinky hair as it would be on Earth, suggesting that in the Pegasus, dark skin pigment isn't always accompanied by dark hair. I'm not sure how to feel about this.
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The use of the same hairstyle on other ass-kicking dark skinned aliens in previous science fiction is NOT a valid defense of the Sci Fi Channel's actions with regard to Ronon. It is called a PATTERN. And I hate to break it to you, but it did not start with the Predator alien. Things like dark skin and dreadlocks have been used as shorthand for "other" or "alien" or "exotic" as long as science fiction has been around. Both Telesilla and Darkrosetiger do a pretty good job of explaining this down below. This thing with Ronon and his dreads is not a new thing. Not even within the Stargate franchise.
No one in the comment threads ever called you or the commenter who used the "non-human" term a racist. All they did was try to calmly point out that the trend, the trope, the lazy shorthand that science fiction writers and producers use (which is the direct cause of their decision to not allow Jason to cut off hair that causes him pain) is pretty fucked up.
Neither is anyone asking you to change this problem. We know it's a problem and has been for a very long time. We also know that writing a few letters to producers or advertisers or whathaveyou is not going to solve the problem. Because the thing is: as long as people continue to consciously or unconsciously think "dreadlocks=alien" or "dark=other" the PTBs will continue to use that as shorthand.
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The fact that you associate dreadlocks with 'nonhuman' and 'otherness' is not a good thing, and I don't particularly think that your defense that pointing it out to you isn't going to do any good holds any water. Why? Because the first point that was raised here was that a point of view on the part of a watcher of the show was offensive, not that the use of dreadlocks by the show itself is offensive. Now, the more I think about that particular fact, the more I have objections to it, but that still wasn't the original point.
Right now I really am getting the impression that you are deflecting any discussion about this - changing the focus to the fact that networks are using dreadlocks on alien characters, rather than answering to the fact that someone on your journal stated that they made Ronon more non-human, and you didn't disagree.
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Alternately, you could say, "I'm sorry; I didn't realize that was offensive and I didn't mean it to be." Full stop.
You could also try setting aside your defensiveness and listening to what we're trying to say, and to look at it from a point of view other than your own.
Sorry. I meant alien as in Andromeda alien, Predator alien – I can send you to photos if need be. It’s as simple as that.
No, I'm afraid it's not. Because you are still making the association that Ronon looks alien--other--because of his hairstyle Or, conversely, if dreadlocks aren't being used by the producers as a marker of otherness, why would it matter to them or to the fans if he cut his hair? Why else would you argue that without the dreads, he'd look less alien?
FOREIGN c: EXOTIC 12: differing in nature or character typically to the point of incompatibility”.
And you honestly don't understand why this is offensive, either when applied to the actor, or to the character who is supposed to be human? I realize that last year's miscegenation imbroglio was centered in HP fandom, but still: the whole point of that was that it touched on the long, ugly history of people of color being considered so "differing in nature or character" as to be less than fully human,
Alien does not mean bad, and never has as far as I know.
As you just pointed out, it means "other". Fundamentally different from whatever's being posited as the norm. In SGA, the fact that the most visible aliens in the show, the ones who are "not like us", are both played by people of color is implicitly stating that "normal" and "Earth human" = white.
What I find ironic in having this discussion about Jason Momoa is that he's very aware of how not being white has impacted his casting and the way he's written in the show. In the "Extra" interview, he points out that Ronon and Teal'c are always compared because they're a) fighters, and b) big, dark-skinned guys. Early on, he commented that one of the reasons he took the part was because as someone "with dreadlocks, you know, not white", this was as close as he was likely to get to doing a Western. And his recent comment about how "both of the aliens have wigs now", meaning him and Rachel? He was making a point there, whether most fans got it or not.
As to why do tv/film producers insist on using color, hair, clothing to differentiate aliens from humans? Ask them.
Except that's not the question. The question isn't even, "why are skin color or other markers of ethnicity used as shorthand for other", because the answer to that is obvious: the film and TV industries are overwhelmingly staffed by and aimed at white Americans. My question is, "why can producers in 2008 still get away with assuming that normal = white?" The answer seems to be because most fans don't bother to challenge that assumption and simply accept it as a given. And then, when those of us who do find it problematic point that out, we're reminded yet again of why fandom is such a maddening, frustrating place for people of color.
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What I would like to ask you, in all sincerity and not wanting to be confrontational, is where your critical thinking is in all this? Why are you just taking what tv/film producers give you and accepting it without questioning it? Without examining it for subtext the same way you'd examine a scene in the show for subtext?
Here's the thing about Othering PoCs, about making them the aliens: I don't need to ask the producers. I know some of the reasons they do it and I'll try to explain them here, although it's probably been done much better elsewhere, so please, please, bear with me and read this with an open mind.
It's an easy fix. It's a cheat. It's bad, lazy writing. And, far more dangerously in a totally insidious way, it reflects a buried fear that's been exploited by storytellers for a long damn time. Ronon, Teal'c, Tyr Anasazi from Andromeda, the dreadlocked Predator alien, Worf and the rest of the Klingons in the Star Trek franchise...they are a modern day mix of the scary black "jungle bunnies" or "spear chuckers" of the '30s adventure films and the trope of the Noble Savage. We are supposed to be a little afraid of them because while they all have codes of honor (well maybe not the Predator alien; I don't know anything about it) they're also dangerously violent and warrior-like and could turn on us if we aren't careful.
This would be why all of those aliens (again, except for the Predator alien) are under the command of a white guy who can, presumably, control them with his superior logic and technology, and simply because he's better. And that's the only safe place to have him, because if the Big Damn White Hero can't control the Brown Savage Warrior, then we're screwed, because the next thing you know, the Brown Horde will be battering down our doors, killing our men and stealing white women.*
And that's another fun level here that I think needs to be looked at; white female viewers are supposed to find all that expressed violence and the whole warrior code of honor sexy. This is the guy who barely keeps his passion in check, this is the sweet savage lover who will ravage us in all the best ways. He is, of course, not the guy we want to take home to meet the folks. No, that's John the Air Force officer and hero or Rodney, the brilliant man of science. Ronon's the "exotic" bit of rough.
If you really want to understand why Othering PoCs, why making them the violent warrior types, is playing into a ton of ugly stereotypes, I'm sure a little research online will dig up some interesting information--presented sooo much better than a person suffering from mild sleep deprivation can--and give you something to read in a non-confrontational setting.
*What was the very first thing we saw Teal'c doing in the pilot episode of SG-1?