Jason Momoa featured in TV Guide (includes PHOTO)

[wraithfodder]

Jason Momoa of Stargate Atlantis is featured on page 10 of the U.S. June 23rd TV GUIDE on 'top 10 breaking news.' However, most of us know that Jason .... oh, hmm, just in case, under the cut!

Yes, he cut his dreads but his head and neck were hurting from the weight of the dreads. He added that all that hair kept him from wearing a bike helmet and kept ruining his balance on a surfboard. Eek! but SciFi execs didn't want him to cut it so now he's got a wig.

.

 

Comments

[lamardeuse.livejournal.com]

Since I'm not allowed to reply to darkrosetiger since her threads have been frozen, may I just say word to both of you here.

[berlinghoff79.livejournal.com]

I'm not very impressed with the wig. It looks nothing like the real thing.

Why couldn't SciFi let him cut his hair in BT? It would have been such a strong scene for JM and RD.*pouts*

[julia-here.livejournal.com]

Adding my voice to both yours and lamardeuse's in agreement with DRT.

Julia, 'okay. I didn't know that. I'll be more careful in how I phrase things in the future.' is pretty much the best phrasing, indeed

[rustler.livejournal.com]

I think it's deeply unfortunate that you have chosen to freeze threads rather than allowing discussion about why people are upset over dreads being equated with "alien" and "dangerous."

When you shut down the conversation, it reads (to me) as sticking fingers in one's ears and refusing to even contemplate the effect of what you've said on others.

[effervescent.livejournal.com]

I agree with the comment directly above mine. I would like to invite you to consider how you would feel if you saw someone equating long blonde hair with someone being 'not-human' or dangerous. I imagine that you find it hard to consider, and I think that's why you don't quite get what people are trying to say here - that your equating the two is really quite offensive to them, because for them, it is quite normal. It really does seem as though you feel it's obvious that dreadlocks are not of the norm - which only speaks to the fact that society is so biased in your favour that you don't realise that for some people, this is normal, and definitely human.

[loligo.livejournal.com]

A-freakin'-MEN.

[wraithfodder.livejournal.com]

I shut down the conversation because I had to go to bed to get up to go to work. I didn't want to wake up and find the comments section (which is not a board) a flaming wreckage. If people are upset, it's one thing, when they start accusing 'racist' toward other fans, I froze the threads. This is a thread about the hair change on a fictional character. People have explained why they said what they did, but others just aren't satisfied. I know I put up my LJ for fun, to discuss a TV show and a few other things, but not to turn into a political platform. If people want to discuss that, they should email each other, because, honestly, I don't want to spend my time moderating comments on pictures of Jason Momoa :(

[wraithfodder.livejournal.com]

Please see my comments on my reply to the post above yours.

[trixiesfic.livejournal.com]

Very well said.

And because the other threads have been frozen, I want to point out here that, "well, they always use dreads to signify ass-kicking alien, like that dude on Andromeda or Predator or whatever else" is not an answer to why this particular issue is offensive. It seems to me that it should lead one to stop and think about *why* dark dudes in dreads are so often cast as ass-kicking aliens and whether there's something kind of fucked-up in the idea that non-white signifiers are used as short hand for scary and alien. Instead of just shrugging and saying that's how it's done and perpetuating the offense.

[trixiesfic.livejournal.com]

Huh. I read the whole thread and I saw a few people say "hey the way you said that is kind of offensive" to which the other fans cried "omg, you're calling me a racist!"

[sholio]

Oh wraithfodder. Don't do this. We've been on each others' flists almost ever since I've been in this fandom, and other people have already said this more eloquently, but maybe you'll be willing to listen to a friend: STOP. Please stop doing the knee-jerk thing you're doing -- freezing threads, defending your actions and those of other people in this thread who are saying rude and hurtful things to PoCs. It reflects very badly on you.

No one is saying you're a bad person. But every time you trot out the argument "It doesn't matter, it's just a fictional character", every time you defend the person who made the non-human comment because "she didn't mean it" and yet freeze threads when anyone tries to defend themselves against her, every time you accuse someone of being over-sensitive -- those are racist things to say and do. I know it's your journal, but you are behaving just like every racist clod who comes barging into every discussion of bias in the media and makes it impossible to talk about this sort of thing without accusations of "oversensitivity" and intentionality flying around like a hailstorm.

Trust me, I have been that racist clod. My shining Moment Of Stupidity was arguing with Pam Noles about the recasting on Earthsea. ("Glacierdust" is a pseud that I used to use for my personal LJ; it's been renamed to my real name since then, in case you were wondering wtf is up with that.) It's memorialized forever; the Internet doesn't forget, and I'm glad, because there's always Google to remind me that sometimes I need to shut up and listen a little bit rather than charging into a discussion with guns blazing and my bias hanging out all over the place. That exchange with Pam was what helped to break me out of my sheltered corner of the world and made me start listening and learning and paying attention to what people were telling me. (And for the record: I hate admitting to that particular bit of stupidity. I squirm with shame at the mere idea of mentioning it in public, and I'm terrified that people who know me will read that link above and won't like me anymore. Which is exactly why I'm bringing it up here, actually, as a cautionary tale. I can't go back and unsay it; all I can do is try not to be that person in the future and deal with the entirely-deserved flak I've taken for having been that person before.)

I can dig you up some links that were helpful to me in working through my own baggage. (I really need to sit down and collect all of this in one place, darn it...) For starters, from a few things I've bookmarked, here is a good (long) post on fandom and media and representation. Here and here is a two-part discussion of "tone", i.e., does it matter if a fan of color uses the "right" words to point out injustice? And one on how to apologize when you fuck up, because we all do. There are oodles of good links at ibarw.

And for now, you know what I'd suggest -- you started this, and for your own sake if no one else's, have the integrity to see it through. Stop freezing threads and being dismissive of people who argue against you. Listen to what people are saying and do some reading on your own, and try to understand where their frustration is coming from and why your words and actions are contributing to it. I still feel terrible for what I said to Pam and I can never make it up to her, but in the long run it was a learning experience for me and I think it made me a better and more open-minded person. Maybe this can do that for you -- it doesn't help the people here and now whose concerns you've dismissed, but maybe it can help you not make the same mistakes in the future.

(Sorry about all the edits. This was important and I had to get it into the proper shape.)

[wraithfodder.livejournal.com]

Ah, sigh. The reason I froze the threasd was stated pretty simply. I went to bed. I have a job. I can't stay up until the wee hours of the a.m. My experience with fandom is that when things get testy, people tend to go nuts. Sorry, but I didn't want to wake up and find the comments board filled with vitriol (it was getting close).

My point is that if people have a problem with characters on TV shows being portrayed as aliens because of the color of their skin, the way they speak, or dress, etc., griping here isn't going to change it (nor is taking potshots at each other). If anybody wants to see change, you have to write the producers of a show, and gripe to advertisers.

And I do stand by my remark that dreads were used on the guy on Andromeda (who looks remarkably like Ronon) as well as the alien on PREDATOR (which I already pointed out). That's why they make him look alien. And to my friends who DO have dreads (yes, two do), no, I don't consider them aliens. I never said to the contrary.

And I guess now I'll ask. I have no idea what a PoC is, because I don't pigeonhole people into acronyms...

[delux-vivens.livejournal.com]

If anybody wants to see change, you have to write the producers of a show, and gripe to advertisers.

If it was as simple as few letters and complaining to advertisers, dont you think it would already be done?

[wraithfodder.livejournal.com]

Simply, most people who complain do so on boards like Gateworld and SciFi, etc, but never actually write to advertisers, etc. If you find anything offensive about a show, you can gripe to a producer, but hitting them in the pocketbook (advertising) usually has better impact. I mean, face it, we'll dissect an episode to bits, but how many people who do that would do the same by dissecting their property taxes and writing their Congressman?

[delux-vivens.livejournal.com]

If you find anything offensive about a show, you can gripe to a producer, but hitting them in the pocketbook (advertising) usually has better impact.

Never mind.

[wraithfodder.livejournal.com]

Have you written Bridge Studios to voice your opinion?

[delux-vivens.livejournal.com]

Since we arent really talking about the same thing here? I'm done. Perhaps someone else can engage with you.

[sholio]

I have no idea what a PoC is, because I don't pigeonhole people into acronyms...

PoC is People of Color. I apologize for using terms that aren't that widely known, but one of the things you'll need to do in order to follow these sorts of discussions is learn the jargon, rather than dismissing it as "pigeonholing". You don't have to use it, but it's useful to know what other people are saying ...

My point is that if people have a problem with characters on TV shows being portrayed as aliens because of the color of their skin, the way they speak, or dress, etc., griping here isn't going to change it (nor is taking potshots at each other). If anybody wants to see change, you have to write the producers of a show, and gripe to advertisers.

Everyone knows that. But that's not what's happening here. The comment that originally got this whole thing going -- and I have no idea who made it or what the exact comment was, since it's been deleted -- was that Ronon's dreds made him look non-human. Since dreadlocks are a traditional non-Western hairstyle and one that's worn by many people with non-Caucasian hair (who still have to deal with cultural norms that are based on hairstyles that just don't work for people with different hair type), that's a horribly insulting, dehumanizing thing to say. Rather than simply letting a racist and insulting comment pass unnoticed, several people spoke up to explain why it was wrong. All that darkrosetiger, and others, said was that the comment was offensive, and (politely) explained why. Then you stepped in to defend the original commenter's offensive remarks and began freezing threads. I don't know where you're finding this "vitriol" you speak of, but I don't see it in the above discussion. Unless asking questions or pointing out offensive remarks constitutes vitriol?

I can certainly understand not wanting a discussion to explode overnight, but now that you're awake, maybe it would be a good time to unfreeze the threads and allow the conversation to continue.

And I do stand by my remark that dreads were used on the guy on Andromeda (who looks remarkably like Ronon) as well as the alien on PREDATOR (which I already pointed out). That's why they make him look alien.

Then I'll ask again what darkrosetiger already asked, which you didn't respond to: Why do you think TV producers commonly use dreds and other non-Western trappings to represent aliens? And to expand on that a little bit, how do you think it makes someone feel, who wears those hairstyles and already is somewhat ignored by mainstream culture, to see themselves represented on TV only as aliens and barbarians? How might that influence how culture itself treats such people?

[sholio]

And by the way -- I'm not kidding here, you don't seem to believe me, but take it from someone who's been there -- the more you defend your questionable actions, the worse it reflects on you.

The reason why I'm coming in here and answering your questions and trying to point out the areas where you're doing yourself harm is because ... well, because I think it's right, for one thing, but more specifically, because I like you and I don't want to see you insulting people and making yourself look bad. Which is what you're doing right now. If you have questions, I'll answer them, but you have to be willing to listen in return.

Dreads vs. non-human argument

[(Anonymous)]

There's one thing some of you are forgetting, if "person of color" = black/African-American, he's neither. He's Hawaiian for the most part on his father's side and a whole mix of other stuff on his mother's side.

apparently, i'm not done just yet.

[delux-vivens.livejournal.com]

if "person of color" = black/African-American,

It doesnt.

It's well known, especially among the people of color participating in and watching this thread, that he is Hawaiian and not of African descent.

[wraithfodder.livejournal.com]

Sigh… I can say the sky is blue right now and that will be wrong. I never meant the word alien as an insult; to the person who took it as that. Sorry. I meant alien as in Andromeda alien, Predator alien – I can send you to photos if need be. It’s as simple as that. Also, from Websters: ALIEN -“1 a: belonging or relating to another person, place, or thing : STRANGE b: relating, belonging, or owing allegiance to another country or government : FOREIGN c: EXOTIC 12: differing in nature or character typically to the point of incompatibility”. Alien does not mean bad, and never has as far as I know. Heck, quamquats are alien to me but that doesn’t mean I think they’re less worthy than an apple. As to why do tv/film producers insist on using color, hair, clothing to differentiate aliens from humans? Ask them.

Dreads vs. non-human argument

[(Anonymous)]

Ok. My father was from Bengal (which is near India,) and my mother was half Swedish, am I a person of color or a Scandinavian?

[sholio]

... I would like to give you the benefit of the doubt here, I really would, but I'm reading this and just staring in shock. How can you honestly see nothing wrong with comparing a non-white male to a ravening non-human monster?

Alien does not mean bad, and never has as far as I know.

Humans have been killing, abusing and discriminating against other human beings and denying their humanity for being "other" (alien, foreign, exotic) for all of human history. Pulling out the dictionary definition of these words says NOTHING about their connotations or the historical baggage associated with them.

I kinda feel like I'm done here. I just don't know what else to say and I don't think you're listening to me at all. Maybe it's because I'm expressing myself badly. I really do hope that when you calm down and back off and get a little distance from this, you'll start doing some reading and begin to understand why people are getting upset at the things you're saying.

[effervescent.livejournal.com]

What about the use of the term 'non-human', which was used up above in one of the threads? I think that makes it fairly clear what the first mention of this viewpoint was implying, and that's that the use of dreadlocks is something that only 'non-humans' do.

The fact that you associate dreadlocks with 'nonhuman' and 'otherness' is not a good thing, and I don't particularly think that your defense that pointing it out to you isn't going to do any good holds any water. Why? Because the first point that was raised here was that a point of view on the part of a watcher of the show was offensive, not that the use of dreadlocks by the show itself is offensive. Now, the more I think about that particular fact, the more I have objections to it, but that still wasn't the original point.

Right now I really am getting the impression that you are deflecting any discussion about this - changing the focus to the fact that networks are using dreadlocks on alien characters, rather than answering to the fact that someone on your journal stated that they made Ronon more non-human, and you didn't disagree.